Loneliness and Childhood Grief
Ali
We are Lonely is recorded across a number of Aboriginal lands including the Eora Nations and the Kulin nations of the Gadigal people. We would like to pay our respects to the Elders and custodians of these lands. We would also like to pay our respects to the custodians of the land on which you are now listening.
Tayla
Any death flips your life upside down like you're grieving. But at nine, I think it's a little bit more difficult trying to still remain a child and be the same person that you were before, is very difficult and very isolating.
Ali
It’s normal for us to feel lonely- it’s a natural emotion like any other. But when loneliness sticks, when we stay lonely, it can be worse for us than obesity, smoking and substance abuse. And right now, more than a third of Australians are chronically lonely. The people who are feeling this the most are young adults - 18-34 year olds. So we made this show to help address loneliness with some simple strategies for connection. This is We Are Lonely, and I’m Ali Walker. This Podcast is part of Medibank’s ten-year initiative to combat loneliness. I’m a Human Connection Scientist and I wanted to be part of this show because I passionately believe that if we focus on positive relationships, we can be healthier and happier. The We Are Lonely podcast is not intended to replace individual health professional care. If you have any concerns or questions surrounding your mental health, you should seek professional advice from your health professional. You can also go to Reachout.com or Beyond Blue.org.au for online or phone support. If you listened to the last season, you’ll notice we’re doing things a little differently this year. We’re working with nine people who’re feeling lonely. Each person has chosen one part of their lives they’d like to work on to help them build connections. And we’ve found someone to help them with that one part of themselves. So in each episode, you’ll meet one participant and their mentor as they work through this one element of their lives. If you did listen to last season, you may recognise a couple of voices, like this one.
Tessa
So, my name is Tessa. I'm a counsellor, I'm based in Wollongong. For a long time, my background for several years was working in the space of loneliness in the UK, where I was actually gathering lots of different stories of people's experience with loneliness. And we were actually exhibiting that at several different locations in London.
Ali
So, you were in season two of we are lonely, how was that experience?
Tessa
Oh, it was amazing. I mean, I personally got to meet a remarkable young woman, Holly and become friends with her. I mean, it was just really a privilege to be able to be part of someone's exploration of that, but such a vulnerable display of that exploration, you know, her being brave enough to, you know, go on something as public as a podcast, and, and voice and name, how she's feeling. And then, you know, go through the journey of figuring that out.
Ali
So today, we're looking at loneliness in relation to childhood grief or loss. What's that relationship with childhood trauma, and loneliness, in your view?
Tessa
I think loneliness is a whole for most people that you speak to, there's some experience of loss there already. Whether it's grieving the person you were, whether it's feeling like you aren't the person you want to be, or with the people you want to be, there's some kind of experience of loss that I think exists there already. This is a really big topic. But it feels like a really important one for us to be talking about, specifically through the lens of loneliness because of how prevalent grief is in your experience of loneliness, and vice versa.
Ali
And when I think about connection, and how vital it is for our mental and physical health, I like to imagine that we have these plugs like electrical plugs coming out of our heart, and we're looking to just plug them in to someone or something or a place to experience that connection. And grief for me is that plug being yanked out of, of its source. And so suddenly all of that beautiful connection we were getting from that source has been removed. And so, the person is then left with loss and that to me explains exactly what's going on on a physical level and an emotional level.
Tessa
Absolutely. And that is such a beautiful way of describing it. And it when you think of it that way, it's then like, the person's journey and response to that plug being yanked out, it's like they're just looking for anything that then can feel that. And sometimes that can be really amazing things. And sometimes that can be things that, you know, really actually can harm us and keep us stuck, or keep us feeling disconnected.
Ali
Because there's an immediate kind of desperation,
Tessa
Totally.
Ali
I was being filled by this connection. And now it's just been, it's just gone, it’s just been left with a void. So, on that note, I'll let you go to meet Tayla, and I can't wait to hear how it goes.
Tessa
Great. Thanks.
Tayla
Hi, my name is Tayla. I'm 27. And I'm a full time Uni student, as well as a full-time job. So, life's pretty crazy. I hope that I can be somebody that can take these things that I learned through this session with you today. And I learned, you know, things that I can help with myself, but also, with the people that eventually I'll move into with my career. Yeah, I'm looking forward to but it's a bit scary. But you know, to help people, you've got to put yourself out there a bit. Yeah. But yeah, I'm excited.
Tessa
Yeah, I mean, the topic that we're talking about, you're absolutely, like, it's a big, it's a big one, right? Do you want to introduce it.
Tayla
So, a lot of my loneliness stems from childhood trauma. My dad passed away when I was nine. And like, I mean, any death flips your life upside down, like you're grieving. But at nine, I think it's a little bit more difficult because you, it's your first like, understanding of death, and it's such a significant one in your life, that trying to understand it, but then also, trying to still remain a child and engaging with your friends, and being able to be the same person that you were before is very difficult and very isolating. And, like my whole school had been told that my dad died. So, it was a very big thing. And it was, I became bullied for it. So, then I stopped telling people that dad had died. And even now, as an adult, I don't want to tell people because it becomes a weird and very awkward part of the conversation. So, you’re kind of like, okay, well, I'm just not going to tell you, I'll keep it to myself. I won't socialise. Because if the only way you're going to be seen is, as somebody that's lost a parent, everybody looks at you with pity. And it's like, I know, like, you know, it's been 18 years. If it was back then fine. But I'm so much more than a dead parent. So, yeah, the things that you carry from childhood with it is crazy. Like I, I was a parent to my two younger siblings at the age of nine. So that was also very, that's caused a lot of loneliness, because I didn't know how to interact with my friends. Because you like, well, they wouldn't understand. Like, you're on a different maturity level. And back then I thought, Oh, cool. I'm so much more mature than these people. And I was like, that's not something to like, celebrate. You shouldn't be celebrating that you're thinking like a 30-year-old woman at the age of 16. So, very confronting, and very real trying to work out and learn who I am all over again. Yeah,
Tessa
Yeah.
Tayla
Yeah, very strange.
Tessa
You know, I think what you said before about, you know, um, you know, I'm so much more than just, you know, someone that's lost a parent. Yeah, I think that's an important thing for us to kind of bring into the scope of this conversation. Right now, we're gonna be focusing on how loneliness in particular is related to experience of childhood trauma. And at the same time, yeah, you're so you've got so many other parts you and there's so much more that's a part of your story.
Tayla
Yeah.
Tessa
And even though this is going to be our focus today, this isn't the only focus of who you are. Right?
Tayla
Yeah.
Tessa
Yeah, I mean, one of the things you've reflected on was the fact that you felt like you had to grow up quite quickly, right? Like this experience of losing a dad meant that you are going through something that maybe many not very many people around you are experiencing at least your peers anyway. But also, so that you also then had to sort of step into almost like this secondary sort of parent or role with your mom, because you will be eldest.
Tayla
Yeah.
Tessa
And how isolating that experience was for you?
Tayla
Yeah.
Tessa
Do you want to speak a little bit more about how when you reflect back up, is that something you felt lonely about at the time? Or is it only now that you're going up there sort of seem to notice, oh, that was actually a really isolating thing to have to then go through.
Tayla
I think I felt it more when I hit high school. And then it got even crazier when mum started working. So, it was like. I was the one making sure that my brothers were okay and fed and dressed and cleaned. But when I hit high school, and I was dressing a five and a three year old, and we would have breakfast, and then I would walk the second youngest to school, and then I would be late to school, so that I made sure that he got to school, and then going into class, and like the teachers knowing why it was light, and feeling like everybody else knew I was late, because they're like, “Oh, she's the girl with the grieving mum.” So, being in year seven, at a big scary school. I just remember feeling so isolated and being like, no one, here could ever understand what I was going through. So, I would isolate myself even more. So, I would withdraw even more, I became very much a homebody, because I had to be home - I've got to make sure my brothers go to football training, soccer, training, martial arts, little athletics, like, I have to be there.
Tessa
Right. Right.
Tayla
And none of my friends could understand that. So, I lost a lot of friends. And it became a very, very isolated, very scary situation where I was by myself, then, you know, that created the point where I was like, you can't make friends. You don't know how to socialise. So…
Tessa
You know, it's um, it's really common, when there's been an experience of some kind of trauma, especially when the other, whether it's the other parent or the other caregiver, if they have a really big emotional reaction to that- which very often they do - It's very common then for the child to sort of see that and then have to minimise their own needs, that has to come at the back of the line, and everything else needs to come before that. And, and in many ways, it sounds like for your story, that was something that had to happen, right for you to be able to be that pillar of strength that you were, you know, for your mum even then and not for your younger brothers, you had to almost minimise what you needed at that time.
Tayla
I still do it to this day; I still make sure that everybody else is taken care of before I'm taken care of. And I'm working on it. Obviously, at the time it was I didn't feel it. But yeah.
Tessa
I mean for that part of you, right?
Tayla
Yeah
Tessa
Yeah, it was a necessary thing to do.
Tayla
Yeah.
Tessa
So, I mean, one of the things I guess, we're starting to notice is like this part of you that, you know, has learned out of this, like necessity to kind of take care and protect others and yourself to sort of, I guess, put your needs sort of last in that sort of long list of people that need.
Tessa
So, this is the thing that takes a little bit of time to explain. So, I'm just gonna give it a crack to see if I can do it a little bit quicker. Parts theory would basically acknowledge that we’re not just kind of one mono mind that were made up of lots of different parts to us. We're all born with a core self. So, we’re all born with, you know, a core of who we are. And the idea is that it's not a therapist's job. It's not anyone else's job to cultivate that we're all born with that we all have that inside of us already. But what can happen as we go through life and experience hurt, or harm, or stress or trauma, is that different parts of us can sort of take on these new roles to kind of keep our inner system safe. And so that might look like you know, a protective role like people pleaser, to kind of, if I just keep everyone happy, then I don't have to feel that feeling of neglect or that feeling of abandonment that I maybe felt in that moment that I don't want to have to feel again. And so, our parts kind of reorganise as a way to keep us safe. And so, a really important way of understanding this is that there's no bad parts of us and ultimately, you know, the part that we want to get to with this is feeling like our parts can actually know and trust self again. So, a really great analogy that I like to use to understand this really quickly is that you can imagine all of your parts as being these younger versions of you. And they're all, they're all trying to drive this car, they're all just jumping behind the steering wheel. And they're like taking over because they're afraid, and they feel like their way is the best way to get you there. But actually, it's kind of harmful, and dangerous, and maybe a little bit risky to do that. And maybe self like the core of who you are, is maybe not even in the car, maybe it's in the boot. It's not, it's not there, it's not being seen. And actually, what we want to do is we want to get self in the car. We want to build the trust up between self and the parts of you. So, the parts actually feel like, oh, I can hand over these keys. And ultimately, they can stay in the car. They can give us directions that they want. But the one that is driving on this behind the steering wheel, the one that is leading is you.
Tayla
Yeah
Tessa
Make sense?
Tayla
Yeah, it does. Yeah, I've been to psychologists, I've, I've seen a naturopath I've done Reiki. I've, like I've done self-help books. I like this has made the most sense in helping break down. Myself, in a sense. This has made the most sense for what I need.
Ali
Tessa’s going to use Internal Family Systems Therapy with Tayla now.
Tessa
A really important thing for you and your parts to know is that we don’t know anywhere without their permission.
Ali
I just want to remind you here that Tessa’s a trained counsellor, and she’s studied this process.
Tessa
You don’t need to share more details than you’re comfortable to share.
Ali
If you’re interested in trying parts therapy, she suggests you reach out to an accredited counsellor or psychologist to help you get started.
Tessa
So, the way a part can show up is in the obvious way like in a thought or an emotion.
Ali
With issues like grief or trauma, finding the right professional to help guide you through this process can be an important first step. If you’re looking for someone in your area, it’s useful to visit your GP who can set you up with a Mental Health First Aid plan and refer you on. There are many elements to this process, and this is just a starting point.
Tessa
The other thing to do is there’s a mapping exercise that will help you notice the parts, some people draw them, some people embody it, some people give it an object in the room. It helps you to get into the practice of knowing yourself in parts and to access that and it will help you to find a way to let self-come forward and to slowing down them taking over.
Ali
How did your time with Tayla go?
Tessa
My time with Tayla was, was amazing, a really special opportunity with a very connected self-aware person, actually. She really knows everything that she needs to be doing, what was becoming very clear was that there was a part of her probably in quite clearly protective part that would shut her down and prevent her from being able to do the things that she was wanting to do.
Ali
And so, it sounds like we’re delving into therapeutic territory so how did you maintain the psychological safety boundaries?
Tessa
It felt important that I was meeting up with Tayla beforehand to get a sense of her story with a topic like childhood trauma it’s a delicate one and we need to put safeguards in place when we’re making it public so it was important to have a conversation first and to do this healing work where she doesn’t have to share everything.
Tayla
I've learned a lot about myself just in this like in the short time that I've known Tessa I definitely feel like a lot has come to me and then there's been things that I work okay like you can acknowledge each part of yourself and still still go forth with your life and feel beautiful connections with people and it's not like you're getting rid of these parts of yourself because it always gonna be there always be so it's it's I think it's a really looking forward to getting into it further
Ali
Like all of the participants on this podcast, I was amazed by how honest and generous Tayla was with her story. As Tessa spoke about at the start of her session with Tayla, the grief and loss is only one part of who Tayla is. We’re all much more three dimensional than the topics of this podcast. For Tayla, one of her passions that was evident from our first meeting was her love of Heavy Metal music.
Tayla
I went to the Knotfest music festival and it was the first time I've ever been to a festival or a concert by myself of course you know at the start it’s daunting but you're standing in a room with like so many other people that share a love for something that you also share a love for. in the crowd people talk to you like you you'll make friends super easy at first of all because you're all like feeding off each other's energy and you're really loving like where you are, and you know that these people are here for the same things. But I think concerts and music really brings people together because it's something that people are so passionate about and I think the community that builds is something so beautiful because it's like, like one person's art is bringing like thousands and thousands of people together so I think it's yeah I think that's why it's a very big safe space and I always feel like I most myself in a mosh pit of a concert yeah
Ali
Finding something you’re passionate about can be a great way to help connect with a community. We looked at this topic in season 2 of We Are Lonely so if you haven’t had a chance to have a listen, yet I would really recommend checking it out. Tessa and Tayla caught up again a few weeks after their first session.
Tayla
Hello, how are you? Me too.
Tessa
And how have you been? How are you feeling after our last session,
Tayla
Good, I was doing well and then it was my dad's birthday so we had like a wild time with my emotions but it was alright, it was good. I think it was one of the easier birthdays. Yeah.
Tessa
Okay, what do you think that was, that was like, what made it easy do you think?
Tayla
Everyone this year seemed a lot calmer around the birthday.
Tessa
Did you feel different?
Tayla
I did. I was like, Like I didn't know how to handle not handling everybody else. So, it was very, yeah. Cause normally I go, I deal with everybody else first and then the day after or two days later, I'm like, okay, now you can feel whatever you need to feel.
Tessa
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And what about in terms of, I guess, parts and thinking in parts or noticing parts or even just in relation to some of the parts we've worked with in this very short amount of time?
Tayla
Well, my little protective part was like a bit confused because it was like, well, if I don't like the one that keeps everybody together, it was like, I don't know what to do now.
Tessa
Yeah, so like there was this other part that also then questioned, you know, if you even knew what to do, right? We know that there are parts when there isn't that clarity there, because self innately knows, like you actually do know, but these parts they kind of sort of step in and maybe make it harder to kind of have that clarity.
Tayla
Yeah, yeah it was like, it was really weird because obviously like this protective or like keep together part always like steps in closer to his birthday like it's like a couple days because it knows it's coming up and it did step in, and I was like...
Tayla
Okay, and then I had to like look for self and be like, we don't actually, you don't need to be here. I know that it's confusing for both of us, but. It looks like it's going to be okay this time. So, it was a very confusing time.
Tessa
One of the things that can be helpful when we start doing this work, obviously, for some of these parts of us, they're going to blend with us, so they're going to sort of take over our system or jump in, jump in front of the, you know, grab the steering wheel, you know, whichever one you want to use to kind of describe it. But sometimes I'll do that because they're burdened by something. And there's actually more work that we need to do to kind of unburden them from that job, from feeling like they have to do that. But sometimes once we start working with our parts, all we actually really need to do with some of them when we notice that they're sort of, that maybe they're blending or they're trying to, is to see if we can acknowledge them at first. So first they acknowledge and say, I see you, I understand why you might be feeling that way or why you might be feeling like you need to kind of do what you're doing. But would you be willing to just relax a little and maybe I'm planning for me and just let me lead? And for some of them, that's enough because the reality is that you already have everything you need inside of you. It's all, it's all there. It doesn't go away. It's like the sun, you know, it's the sun is always there. It's just that sometimes the clouds kind of, you know, get there, get in the way. And I mean, how, how has this process been for you and what's been like? Yeah, trying, but probably quite a different way of, of understanding our internal world and making sense of it.
Tayla
I think this is the most beneficial, like version of therapy that I've ever done. Like this is definitely something that I realised I was like, this is what I've been looking for. And I am able to, like, I'm setting a lot more boundaries for myself. But I'm also breaking boundaries that I had set that were ridiculous boundaries. And if I'm like making a new friend or like last night I went out and I was like, I felt the...part… my self -worth, my version of self -worth and what I thought of myself is a part that stops me from talking to people and making friends because I'm like, no, they don't want to be your friend. But last night I was like, no, you can acknowledge the part, you're going to speak to them, but you're still going to take the step to just talk to one person. And I did and it was wild. I was like, okay, yeah, doing something.
Tessa
That's amazing. I love hearing that. Good on you. Look at you go. See?
Tayla
It was good. I was like, God, okay, I have to tell Tessa. Yeah.
Tessa
Yes, I'm so happy. We can celebrate that. Like when we can notice, okay, yeah, that's a part of me. We get it. We get why it's, it's, you know, saying that because it's just trying to protect you, you know, from, you know, any kind of hurt and maybe because it's stuck in that place where it did. But, you know, self can handle it like you, you can handle it. And so it doesn't have to, doesn't have to worry. It can kind of, it can just, okay, we recognise that, you know, thank you. Let me leave. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Tayla
Thank you, but it's okay. I've got this. Yup. Yup. Yeah. Strange feeling, but kind of gives you a boost of confidence. Like for yourself, you're like, no, actually I, I do know what I'm doing. Like I'm okay. I can do it.
Tessa
Totally, exactly. Because you can. That's right. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Exactly.
Tayla
Because I can, yes.
Tayla
I feel like doing this and working with you, like I feel that I have more confidence in myself, like, and making choices for myself and like even at work and in my personal life and stuff, I am more confident with setting my boundaries with people and also, I have confidence to let people come closer or something that I normally wouldn't do. So, I feel a very big confidence boost.
Tessa
sometimes these burdens will actually come from social constructs, right? So wider burdens, legacy burdens is what we would call it. So, you know, for example, this idea that individualism, so this idea that we need to... kind of us for help. We just need to get on with things and do things on our own. You know, that that's a larger, often sort of legacy burden that is not just one that sort of we've, you know, had to take on as children or in relation to our circumstance, but it could also be the reality of, you know, our generational, you know, patterns of behaviour that have been put on us as a result of just the way the world has become, right. As we've sort of evolved over time. So those kinds of things, yeah, there's like, there's the deeper work in unburdening that and we haven't necessarily done much of that because that takes time to get closer to those protective parts and build their trust to be able to go to those sort of other parts to heal them and unburden them. But certainly, this is the beginning of a lot. And even just in recognizing parts, it helps you to un-blend and helps create space for self. And so, it sounds like that's at least what you've been able to kind of take from it so far, which is amazing.
Tayla
It's beneficial. And yeah, I really need it because I noticed like I'm building like better relationships with people, recognising like parts of myself, even just like slight differences. Like I'm more open to a conversation or a bit more of a personal conversation with people. So, I'm like, okay, I can give you a bit of personal information and not be in my head about it, regret it and never speak to you again. Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa
Right, right, right.
Tayla
Yeah, it's cool. I think it's going to be really beneficial moving forward in my life.
Tessa
Yeah, so I guess what are you hoping for in terms of like, I guess, for the point of this, this part, I guess of this experience kind of coming to somewhat of a close, how are you feeling about that? And what's it feeling like in terms of looking into the, you know, looking forward, looking into the future?
Tayla
I think I'm a little bit sad that this like little experience is ending. but I, I think I will be very grateful for a very, very, very long time. and I definitely, this is something that I'll constantly look back on and be like, like you did this for yourself. You did it for nobody else. You did it for you and look what you got out of it.
Tessa
Right, right. I'll be able to build better and like deeper connections with people because I can let myself just be self.
Tessa
Yeah, exactly.
Tessa
Taylor, anyone would be so lucky to have you as a friend. You know, you're a beautiful soul. You've got a lot of, you know, your energy that you emulate is just, it's this something really warm about it. Really warm about it. So yeah, anyone would be so lucky. I'm excited for the world that gets to become your friend.
Tayla
Thank you.
Ali
We know that trauma and childhood trauma don’t necessarily lead to mental health conditions. Grief doesn’t always turn into chronic depression; sexual assault doesn’t always result in PTSD. What’s important is not the event itself, but the way we’re able to manage the time afterwards. If we don’t have the space to face what we experience, or if we don’t have the support to work through it, then we’re at risk of mental health impacts. We may also choose to build protections around ourselves. Those protections can then lead to us feeling more lonely. We do know that people who are experiencing a mental health condition are among the most likely to feel lonely. If you are experiencing depression or anxiety and you think that is causing you to become lonely, it’s important to address the condition itself. Go to your GP for a referral to a practitioner or find a support group that will help you to address what you’re feeling. And like I said before, if Tessa’s work around parts theory resonates with you, she recommends you seek out a practitioner, a counsellor or psychologist, who’s trained in Family Assisted Parts Theory to start that process. If this show has raised any issues for you, remember there are always places to turn, such as Lifeline on 13 11 14; Beyond Blue.com.au; and ReachOut.com, which offers dedicated support for young people. For more information and tips to help you if you’re feeling lonely, visit we are lonely.com.au We are Lonely is produced as part of Medibank’s ten-year commitment to addressing loneliness. I am Ali Walker. This show was produced and edited by Liz Keen and Simon Portus from Headline Productions with support from Cara O’Brien and Olivia Patchett. Our theme music is by Kenneth Lampl. Our team from Medibank include Karen Oldaker, Katrina Weir, Jessica Salter and Rebecca Carter. And project and Production Management by Rob Ranieri and Nick Randall from Ranieri and Co.
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