Loneliness and Migration
Ali
We are Lonely is recorded across a number of Aboriginal lands including the Eora Nations and the Kulin nations of the Gadigal people. We would like to pay our respects to the Elders and custodians of these lands. We would also like to pay our respects to the custodians of the land on which you are now listening.
Sonali
The loneliness in my culture comes from not being Indian enough, but then not being Australian enough. And often I'm very, like, a foot on each side of each world. And I'm just like, — I don't know where I am. And I don't know who I am. And that gets difficult.
Ali
The world has never been more populated, but research tells us that people are experiencing loneliness more often, and in greater numbers. So much so that the World Health Organisation has created a Commission on Social Connection. And the UK has a Minister for Loneliness. But while loneliness is universal, and a growing concern, there are some groups of people who are more likely to experience chronic loneliness than others. This is We Are Lonely, and I’m Ali Walker. This Podcast is part of Medibank’s ten-year initiative to combat loneliness. Our mentor today understands the issue of cross-cultural loneliness from both a research and a personal perspective. This is Dr Quah Ee Ling.
Ee Ling
I am a Senior Lecturer and Academic with Western Sydney University. I came to Australia when I was 30 to do my PhD in sociology, I'm Singaporean Chinese Hockien and Indonesian Peranakan heritage. I think that's it.
Ali
And can you tell me about your interest in loneliness or how you came to be interested in it?
Ee Ling
My interest in loneliness is more sociological, and I'm more interested to shift the conversation away from thinking about how we can fix the individual- So my interest is in looking at the structural conditions that result in a human condition that plagued everyone in this world, of course, in different ways, and in the unequal and even distribution.
Ali
So, we're looking at loneliness in relation to living between cultures. Can you talk a bit about how racism or the perceptions people have in Australia, impact loneliness?
Ee Ling
So, race, racism is some is a colonial legacy that we have inherited. So, when people say that, Oh, race and racism is in the past, it's not. And it's also not just individual behaviour it’s completely historical, is completely systemic is completely institutional. Right.
Ali
And Inter-generational.
Ee Ling
Yes. And the aim is to differentiate, it's never to bring people together, right? It's never meant to equalise. So that ranking of humanity affects how we feel about our position. And if our position is meant to be ranked less equal, we will inevitably feel alienated, we feel that no matter how we try, we can never attain some form of a dignified existence. How can one not be lonely in a condition like that.
Ali
I feel like my mind, I've literally just opened up my brain and everything you are saying, I'm just absorbing, and I'm being transformed by what you're saying. I guess these categories are so important because a lot of people think that loneliness is not having enough friends. But actually, it's quite different. It's, it's more about the satisfaction that comes from the connection, the contact with our friends, is this something that's more pronounced for people who aren't born in Australia? Or do you think? Or do you think this is a universal condition?
Ee Ling
Well, what it is, loneliness is definitely a universal condition. because of the kind of global neoliberal economy that we are all caught up in because it's set up to make us feel that we constantly need to chase. And because of the modern, modern life condition that we are all caught up in it, we will inevitably feel lonely, but having said that, that, of course, the distribution of life chances is different is unequal, and it's uneven. So, for somebody who comes as a refugee as asylum seeker, naturally, their obstacles that they have to overcome will be huge. And if there's no way that they can even find some form of level of comfort, that sense of loneliness will be even be more pronounced.
Ali
And it's just actually reminding me of some work that's been done on this productivity economy. And if you take people who are constantly struggling, struggling, struggling to keep up, and you diagnose those people with a mental illness, that is not not right, because they're not mentally ill, they're just chronically stressed in survival mode. And so, from what I'm taking from, what you're saying, is that there's a lot of people in survive stuck in survival mode. And that is inherently lonely to be in that place, because it is devoid of connection.
Ee Ling
And that you are right, that it can lead to all kinds of health complications, including mental health conditions. So, I'm not negating those. Right? I'm not saying that those are not valid. But what I'm interested to really have a discussion around moving away from fixing the individual, making the individual the individual feel that if I can just be a bit more positive, if I can connect with people a bit more, if I go out there and put myself out there and make more friends, I will be less lonely. And and I think that itself can be very, very lonely because you will feel that I'll try so hard. What the hell is like nothing is changing. You know that. Why am I still feeling that? So isolated and so hopeless?
Ali
Okay, well, with all that, I'll let you head to meet Sonali. Thank you can't wait to hear how it goes.
Ee Ling
All right. So, hi. Sonali. Lovely to see you in person here. Would you like to share a little bit about yourself and about your maybe your migration story?
Sonali
Yeah. So, I was born in India. And when I was about five, we actually moved to the US for a couple of years and then moved here. And I guess in that time, I've just had a lot of relocation, a lot of like, loss of friendships, but I I was too young to ever hold on to them. And yeah, it's been difficult but I'm here now and trying to find myself.
Ee Ling
So, when you arrived in Australia, you were about eight or nine. Yeah, bad. I don't know. You just and you join a primary school, a local public school. Yeah. Local Public. How was the experience like for you?
Sonali
I think that like when I was at that age, it was everyone was so excited by me because I was different. But it was hard because I had a different accent. And I was very aware of it. That was always something I was very aware of. And I'm not sure if like, I don't know if that's like a common thing. But I have like two accents. Even now. I have like, the accent that I come out into the world with, and I have an accent I have at home. But I didn't struggle making friends. Because I think obviously in year four everyone's really friendly, you just say, hey, do you want to be my friend, and you're good. But I think what came out of primary school and then going into high school was that I really started to hate my culture and hated myself.
Ee Ling
In high school.
Sonali
Yeah, like, like, I didn't want to be Indian.
Ee Ling
Was there any particular event that that triggered that response?
Sonali
I think it was the stereotype at that time that was around like Indian people, you know, like people will play like, Indian men singing like modern songs and in the accent and like mocking it and be like, I don't want anything to do with that. I want to be as white as I possibly can be like, like, so I just thought, being Indian must be bad. No one No one's ever gonna want me or want me around. If I'm, if I continue perpetuating the stereotypes so.
Ee Ling
So, growing up, you know, feeling that that there's so much you know, self-resentment, or resentment towards your own cultural heritage? And how did that affect your relationships at home? And do you speak your own ethnic language or cultural language? Do you get to learn at home?
Sonali
I think that was another major thing, like I had no interest in the language. But so, my parents, the other thing that's caused a lot of this, like, I think distance is that my parents are two different religions, within like India itself. So, dad is a sub sect of Hinduism called Jainism. And mom's a Catholic. So, my sister and I were raised as Catholics. And Hindi is not the first language. So, I knew it from like, hearing it when I was younger, but I can't really speak it read or write it. I like very badly, like, understand it. But in terms of my relationship with my parents, I don't think it affected my relationship with my parents in that way. Like, I think I would just express it a lot. And my mom would just be like, what can you do? Like, you know, do what you need to do to like, move around in this world?
Ee Ling
How did how did all this experience attribute to the, the sense of loneliness that you were experiencing?
Sonali
So, I think that loneliness in my culture comes from Not being Indian enough, but then not being Australian enough. And often I'm very, like, a foot on each side of each world. And I'm just like, I don't I don't know where I am. And I don't know who I am. And that gets difficult. And I've even like I remember at a party, someone who's like, oh, yeah, like, like, yeah, you're Indian, but you're not really like Indian enough. And I was like, oh, like I say, like it, like, made everything real, like everything that I had been feeling.
Ee Ling
How do you experience that sense of, I'm not Australian enough. How did that that sense get developed.
Sonali
It sounds silly, but like, I missed, obviously, a big frame of time here, like, not that long, but seven, eight years is a pretty big time. And so, I don't have those common experiences. And so sometimes, you know, people will talk about things, and I just can't relate, or I don't know how it's done, or, you know, people have different, different ways of like preparing meals or cleaning houses or like, and I'm just like, oh, that's, that's how it's done here. And I don't say I've never felt like I have done it. Right, or been Australian enough. Does that make sense?
Ee Ling
Totally makes sense. The sense of being right, like being in the right place, doing the right thing, saying the right words, feeling that you're not right, by, by certain standards always make you feel a bit dislocated, and then not feeling that you have an anchor so that that, oh, you know, that I'm also really attached to my own cultural background, or my, my, my home country. That itself is a profound sense of loss, isn't it that you feel that over time that is just so puzzling and frustrating. Is that something that you, you feel that you could relate to.
Sonali
A hundred percent. I think you put it in like, the best words like you've summed it up really well, I just feel really disjointed all the time. I think it's created a sense of like, hyper awareness. I'm just so hyper aware, all the time.
Ee Ling
I think I; I thank you so much for sharing, but I really appreciate your story. And, and I think that, to a great extent, your story mirrors the story of many, many immigrants. And when I first came, I feel a lot like you, I felt a lot like you that I just didn't know where I should be and how I should speak. You're always self gaslighting. And wondering whether you're doing the right thing, and whether you are being a nuisance or being bothersome to others. And so, it's always that constant sense of hyper vigilance that you talk about. And, and I think that in my own research on migration that spoken with so many migrants, and as they also encounter other forms of structural barriers, that sense of loneliness become even more profound, especially when they're also dealing with racism, dealing with xenophobia, and up to recently with a global pandemic, anti-Asian. Yeah, hate that was, that was the everyday reality. But I come to realise that it is less of a individual problem, which I tend to want to look at it as a structural issue that affects all of us differently. The sense of loneliness is really a default human condition. And instead of focusing on how we need to fix ourselves, I think a greater appreciation or understanding of how the structural conditions affect how we are feeling now or how we are encountering the society may help us also make sense about our sense of loneliness. Does that make sense?
Sonali
Yeah, that makes sense. I hear what you're saying. Like I think it's important to like, not turn around and like blame yourself for everything that you're experiencing. But also like, like you said, to understand how society has played a role in it like it doesn't mean there's something wrong with a person inherently it's, it's society that hasn't had like had the say the right set up. to like, make it comfortable.
Ee Ling
I think sometimes helping, thinking about our own sense of loneliness, what helps us really, I've personally found this connection helps, right, that, that we can't get rid of the sense of loneliness, it will always be there because of the structural issues, right? Because of I mean, look at the context we're living now, right, there are wars happening, the entire economic system always make us feel really anxious about our job security, about housing, these are huge, broader structural conditions that we can’t, we can’t fix, then how then do we give ourselves permission that to acknowledge that these things are happening to us not because we make certain choices or certain decisions, but rather, they are affecting all of us the inflicting all kinds of sense of loss in all of us. And then how do we find little pockets of connections that will help us breathe better.
Ee Ling
Personally, I find connections like this really, really meaningful. Talking to other people with similar stories with other women of colour, with similar migrant stories, Migration Stories really make a lot of difference. At my workplace we have a women of colour network we just wanted to come together and, and have lunch, and, and chat, and just be in each other's presence. And just to tell each other that we are here we exist, that I find that it is it helps to alleviate that sense of loneliness. So, do you have groups of friends like that, that you feel that you could not like about some of these struggles? Or your sense of loneliness?
Sonali
Not really, I don't think there's anywhere that I'd feel like fully comfortable. Like talking about, like laying it all out like this. Like, I'll like I'll broach it very tentatively. This is how I've felt like you know have you had common experiences I recently bought it up with a friend of mine, but she was just like oh like not like sometimes but not really and like she talked she talked about it briefly and then we sort of just dropped the topic because I wasn't really feeling like that connection.
Ee Ling
Yeah, it's not, it's not easy to find. It took me a while. When I first came, I think the whole first year, I felt incredibly lonely. So with my community I don't find another group of Singaporean community first of all that they're not many Singaporeans here and I don't really see that there is a need to find based on nationality or culture it's really just a connection of lives right your connection of souls with that people who feel that they get it the share of same politics right they share the same kind of values or sincere lifestyle may be or ideas in view that you just feel that intimacy and connection. The big topic about among migrants is the sense of belonging. But I stopped searching for belonging and home. Going back home, whenever I visit Singapore, I don't feel at home anymore, you probably could understand, I guess, friends that you grew up with, you don't have a common topic anymore. Right. And then coming here, I feel that I don't feel at home because I've been made to feel that, that I am different. I'm, I'm never going to be equal. So, I think I stopped searching for home, or searching for belonging, maybe I can find my own way of living that doesn't require me to be launched into the idea of a home or a sense of belonging.
Sonali
Yeah, that sounds really confronting. How do you not have somewhere you can base back to? Even if you don’t fully belong in it? Was that a hard decision or transition?
Ee Ling
I find it more liberating, the pressure of having to be attached to the idea of a home or space can be removed.
Sonali
Yeah. And like you can be yourself fully. How do you get so comfortable with yourself that you don't need somewhere to belong?
Ee Ling
That's a really good question. I don't think I'm comfortable with myself. I'm comfortable with the discomfort. I will never be this confident super powerful woman that will be completely at peace with myself, and I wake up look in the mirror think I’m fabulous and super beautiful I don't think I've ever be that. And I don’t think I’ll ever be not lonely. I think that this not being is the human condition then I've been trying to understand and accept over the years and stop trying to fix myself trying to say things that for there must be a problem maybe I need to do better maybe I need to you know exercise more maybe I need to eat better maybe I should practise mindfulness a bit more and I think that after a while I realised that I can I must stop chasing because there will always be something that will tell you that you’re not good enough and you need to fix it. So how do I process this on the daily basis so that I don't have a melt down? I think that maybe just everyday tiny little strategies to help me breathe and help me sit with the discomfort and not trying to fix myself really makes a lot of difference I read a lot of fiction or poems and especially a seek out work that talks about these issues I’m grappling with. Because it's not easy to also go out and find friends especially when you are so busy, you have such a busy job. But on my own I read a lot of women of colour literature. that helps that sense of validation makes a lot of difference the sense of validation makes me feel less lonely.
Sonali
I guess I hadn't really thought of it that way but you're right because it's like even just reading stories and hearing stories we get the affirmation that you're not you're not alone.
Ee Ling
And those stories sometimes give us nuggets of inspiration as well right how did they work through life how did they live on how did they breathe how did they connect, and and those little nuggets of inspiration give us hope, right? To find your own little strategies it's just this small things that make a lot of difference because we can hang out with friends and it's great sometimes would find friends who are like minded but they can disappoint you to right, sometimes they may not get it so if we only pin our hope or one thing it might be disappointed so it might be good range of different tools then you can use to help you just okay let me wake up today breathe, have coffee and see why I can do today to live better.
Sonali
It's like an inspiration, it's where I want to be in the future and so hearing you talk about it, I’m like wow it’s possible!
Ee Ling
Look I have bad days too. let's just not pretend that I'm also collected and composed. There are seasons, seasons that I just feel that it is hard that I totally get it. There’s days that I feel that no I can't do this not another day another you know another encounter like not another rubbish that I have to deal with. I think we need to be gentle with ourselves is really important listen to our body things myself or some days that I just think that okay you know it might be it might not be the day that I can conquer the world it might not be even the day that I can feel that at the energy to do those little strategies that I mentioned about but that's okay I'll try tomorrow. Yes. Yes. So, in three weeks, we will meet again, and how do you think that you, you might want to develop certain strategy that will just help you, you know, cope with that sense of loneliness?
Sonali
I think from what you've been talking about, it's been making me sort of reevaluate how I want to not see myself but like, do things for myself. And I'm sort of like, like, how are we going to do this? I've got like a two-pronged approach actually, practically works out. But one side is like, first giving myself that safe space. So, when it gets too much, you know, like retreating back to something and I really like the thought of like, reading books by, you know, people of colour, not necessarily like, you know, like, just anything just like surrounding myself by that literature like feeling other people's stories. And then I think the second part for me, which I mentioned that I've started doing a little bit, is talking about it but not even necessarily to other people who may connect but just talking about it. Yeah.
Ee Ling
Yeah, brilliant. So, we will meet in three weeks.
Ali
So how did your time with Sonali go?
Ee Ling
It went really well it was such an intimate connection. The fact that we met it feels that we are already less lonely, yeah, I was just a meeting of two new friends with really similar migration background and just connecting on that level of wanting to exchange stories and that was there was a powerful connection.
Ee Ling
Hi Sonali, how are you?
Sonali
Good, good, good. Thanks, Ee Ling. How are you going?
Ee Ling
I'm good. Just want to catch up about since we met the last time, which is probably a month ago, how has it been going for you?
Sonali
Yeah, it's been going well. I found that like, after our meeting, I sort of like compartmentalized everything for a long time. It took me a while to really start thinking about it again. I'm not sure why that's the case, but I just thought that was interesting.
Ee Ling
Can you share a little bit about what came to mind after the session? What do you experience, any discomfort or any uncomfortable feelings from your sharing, from talking about your experiences from the last session?
Sonali
So, I don't think it was that I felt uncomfortable because I felt pretty like safe and like, okay, talking about everything. I think it was just a lot of like realisation for me almost. I was a bit like, this is actually a lot that I'm experiencing. It's not as little as I've made it out to be in my head. It's actually a big thing and there's actually something I can do for it.
Ee Ling
Mm. Could you share a bit about your own reflections after the session that we had? What really left the deepest impression for you and what were your greatest takeaways?
Sonali
I think what left the greatest impression on me was that I didn't need to find people who had the exact same stories as me to not feel so alone, to feel so lonely about it essentially. I liked what you said, especially about like Belonging with the lack of belonging like everyone has that different story and you don't have to be You don't have to not be lonely Like you just have to get comfortable with that feeling and learn how to protect yourself from it and I think I didn't realize like how many resources and how many people I actually had around me with Experiences and so when I started talking about it it. I was like, I'm actually surrounded by a lot of people who have similar experiences, just very different stories.
Ee Ling
I'm glad to hear that you had that reflection, so that takeaway with you after the session. And often it's not that you don't know all this already, like you have all the resources, the tools, the strategies, but sometimes it's just getting together and have formed that connection and, and be given that platform to reflect and to take stock of what you already have in your life and see how you could use them in different situations and circumstances. So I'm glad that you took away something from that session. Do you experience any discomfort or any, do you feel that talking about certain things make you feel, you know, just uncomfortable and vulnerable and that kind of, you know, disturb you for a few days. I'm just wanting to check in as well.
Sonali
Of course, thank you. No, I definitely don't think there was any discomfort around it. I definitely felt very vulnerable. I was very like, you know, this is not something that I talk about very frequently if at all. So, I sort of walked away and I was like, wow, that was really intense. And such like there was like things I spoke about that I hadn't really even acknowledged to myself, And I think that's why like my immediate reaction to the whole thing was like, just shying away from it a little bit and not really like thinking about it until I was in a bit of like a better place to think about it where it didn't feel so confronting.
Ee Ling
What is your take on loneliness now after that session? How do you think about loneliness or how do you perceive your own state of loneliness? Could you share a little bit about that?
Sonali
I think like it's it's a bit like dual handed in that sense like on one hand I feel like I did learn that the loneliness wasn't necessarily a bad thing it didn't have to be a full negative experience I could actually learn a lot about myself through it and you know, it's actually almost a talking point like, hey, I don't feel so good about this and you connect with other people through it. But on the other hand, it still doesn't stop the loneliness. Like you said in the session, like you still feel lonely and it still affects you and hurts you. And that's totally normal. Like that's okay. But I guess it's a matter of not punishing yourself for feeling lonely.
Ee Ling
Thank you. Yeah, totally, totally. I was also thinking about my own state of loneliness on a daily basis that is really not about being surrounded by a lot of people or going out to make friends. That can fix our condition or our state of loneliness. You could be having like 10 meetings in a day, meeting different people, but because there's no connection, you know, they don't speak the same lingo, they don't get you, you feel that you are sometimes talking to the wall, or sometimes you feel unsafe because of the things that they say to you. That sense of loneliness can be so pronounced.
Sonali
Yeah. I definitely agree with you, I'm kind of glad to hear you say that. I look up to you a little bit and I'm like, wow, you're so established.
Ee Ling
Aww, you're so kind.
Sonali
So, it's nice to like hear that, you know. But yeah, I do feel that way too. Like you do feel like sometimes like even though you might be out, you might be with other people. They're not, they've not experienced necessarily the same situations you have. And I think like that's a really big thing because when I was telling you earlier about how there are actually a lot of migrant stories around me, that is true. And I like was interested to hear like I started opening myself up a lot more to those conversations instead of being like they won't understand me. I was like, look, I'll just hear their stories even though they might be different. But I'm also queer like my I'm bisexual, my partner's like a woman and a lot of the people I'm talking to are people at work and not I don't work with people like my age or like who share the similar mindsets to me and I'd like not a lot of people are queer for example so even in that shared community of like, they're migrants, they understand what it's like to move here and why it's difficult and it's an interesting story. It still feels like there's like a big part of me that I can't really talk about anyway because they don't really get it.
Ee Ling
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, having to sometimes censor yourself in order to protect other people's feelings or other people's insecurities can also make you feel incredibly lonely that you have to withdraw, you have to just, you know, shrink in order to make space for others. That act itself has nothing to do with the number of people around you. It has to do with that. that disconnect, right? That sense of feeling that, you know, that I have to be made small in order you could live large. And that is incredibly distressing. And I really get you that there is not something that can go away because ideally, I would like to create my own society, but it doesn't work that way. So, you know, so it's then, yeah, so it's then, then what do we do, right? That,
Sonali
Exactly right.
Ee Ling
Since we met the last time, do you feel that you put in place certain strategies or perhaps you have started to think about things differently? Were there some changes that you felt that you have set in motion?
Sonali
I definitely feel like I started thinking about it a little bit differently. I felt a little bit more forgiving to myself. But I guess to like see, like, like you, talking about having like a tribe I guess to find that a little bit more I've been engaging with a little bit more media like the things that you recommended and some of the stuff that you recommended it turns out that I already like follow on Instagram like I'm already following the difficult women's book club and I was like I follow them I just haven't like engaged yet. but that's something I'd like to do like set myself up a challenge like for this year to like interact with the Difficult Women's Book Club and actually like go to a meeting and see what it's like and they've also started like a running club so I might try and like see how I go there too.
Ee Ling
Yeah, that's awesome. So, do you run as well?
Sonali
No, but I'd like to start so I feel like that'd be a good motivation. You also suggested queer stories and I have; I've been before but again I stopped engaging so like I think that would be a nice way to engage with the community without necessarily having to interact with a lot of people. I've also just started reading a book called, Growing Up queer which has a lot of POC stories in it too, which I was like, this is really exciting. It's an anthology of short stories. And I started reading it and I was like, wow, this is really interesting. It's nice to see so much representation. It's nice to feel represented in media as well. Yeah.
Ee Ling
Yeah, I'm familiar with that anthology. I'm glad that you are reading and trying out different things. So, it's just, it depends on what you need, but it's good to know that. That there could be some of these strategies and tools that I could pull out when I need it.
Sonali
I think that's really wise because it's like you're listening to what your body and your brain needs. You're not pushing yourself too much. I guess what I'm finding the most difficult about this process is whilst it like feels so attainable like it's possible because you've obviously shown me like there are groups out there, it still feels like it's so far away so like I can see it but it feels a little bit unattainable and a little bit difficult to get to.
Ee Ling
Yeah, I get what you're saying because it's also the social anxiety which I struggle with. I think a lot of people would struggle with that if you're an introvert, you know, or that you, you know, you're just feeling very uncomfortable being out there. It's totally understandable and I think that is quite a common and human reaction. And I think that's fine because it's really... It really depends on how you feel, you know, that day and what season you are in. And I think it's just so important to be very gentle with yourself. And there shouldn't be any pressure as well that, we need to have this number of friends, we need to have this… number of exposure, this number of events to attend in order to feel that we are not lonely. And I thought that when we met the last time, it was a very, very intimate and special connection that I felt very nourished from the connection itself.
Sonali
That’s so nice to hear, I did also feel nourished by the connection. It's been so nice to connect with you. Like I feel like I've not just found someone like to look up to, but I've also found a friend. So yeah, I really appreciate it.
Ali
Some of the reasons that we’re all experiencing more loneliness are beyond our control. The way our society operates, the focus on being individuals, the competitiveness and the stresses we live under - economic, social, environmental. Racism, sexism, homophobia. We only have to open a newspaper or turn on our phones to be exposed to these things. That isn’t to try and make you feel worse, it’s to give us all permission to feel what we’re all feeling. But what we can manage in this experience is the way we move in the world. Like Ee Ling says, finding people who understand our experience can help. Also finding ways to look after ourselves, to have some self-compassion. And even being selective about what we read, watch and listen to. These small things can make big differences to how we feel in the world we’re moving in. They can help us feel less alone.
If this show has raised any issues for you, remember there are always places to turn, such as Lifeline on 13 11 14; Beyond Blue.org.au; and ReachOut.com, which offers dedicated support for young people. For more information and tips to help you if you’re feeling lonely, visit we are lonely.com.au We are Lonely is produced as part of Medibank’s ten year commitment to addressing loneliness. I am Ali Walker. This show was produced and edited by Liz Keen and Simon Portus from Headline Productions with support from Cara O’Brien and Olivia Patchett. Our theme music is by Kenneth Lampl. Our team from Medibank include Karen Oldaker, Katrina Weir, Jessica Salter and Rebecca Carter. And project and Production Management by Rob Ranieri and Nick Randall from Ranieri and Co.
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